Tag Archives: Canon Law

Research Seminars

Clerics’ Wives and Women in the Latin West (800-1200) – Thematic Meeting

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The Other Sister – Thematic Meeting 11/04/2025

The members of The Other Sister met on the 11th of April 2025 to discuss three chapters and the introduction of the forthcoming book Clerics’ Wives and Women in the Latin West (800-1200) co-edited by Fiona J. Griffiths and Émilie Kurdziel and published at Cambridge University Press.

This subject was very much of interest to The Other Sister not only due to its subject matter, which presents non cloistered women fulfilling religious roles, but also due to its methodology. This book promotes reading or rereading sources to find these women that others have overlooked and doing so in collaboration with other researchers, something that resonates with The Other Sister’s mission. Furthermore, this pushes The Other Sister’s timeline (1100-1800) back 300 years (800-1200), allowing us to find continuities throughout the Middle Ages and Early Modern Period.

The three chapters read for this meeting were:

  • Fiona J. Griffiths. “Surrendering Huza: A Clerical Wife and Mother as Gift in the Eleventh Century,”
  • Margot Laprade. “Clerical Dynasties and Marriage Strategies in Eleventh-century Brittany”
  • Émilie Kurdziel. “Gerberga, the Erased Wife of Bishop Willelmus of Arezzo (1011-1013)”

As an introduction, Fiona J. Griffiths explained that this book began from a desire to go beyond the caricatures of clerical wives. She noted that the historiography has sided with the rhetoric of Church reformers and with the idea that reform produces a “better” Church, thusly painting married clerics as inherently corrupt. Much of the historiography on the subject also focus on the legislation regarding clerical marriage, some on the married clerics, and very few on the wives and women living with the clerics. The co-edited book aims to specifically speak to the women’s experiences and lives.

Furthermore, there was a general view that there were no sources on these women. However, Fiona insisted that collaborative work made this possible as many people had found some information to fit into the puzzle.

Fiona finished her presentation thinking through the question as to what role these women might have had in their church. Finding this role is very difficult, but what is clear is that there is a pre and a post-ordination life for these wives. Their virtue prior to ordination is of importance and she often had to agree to the ordination of her husband. Additionally, there is evidence that her clothing would have changed after the ordination of her husband or gained a title, such as ancilla Dei.

Next, Margot Laprade presented her chapter, which deals with two episcopal dynasties in the 10th and 11th century, in which bishops are succeeded by their sons from post ordination marriages. Through examining these families, Margot could see that clerics’ wives were referred to with titles that are closely related to power and function such as sacerdotissa and used the space of the cathedral as spaces in which they had power.

Margot also stressed that there are in fact many clerics’ wives in Merovingian sources from the 5th to 7th centuries, where we see women consenting to their husband’s ordination, continuing to live together, and even having a role in the liturgy. She cited an example of a letter from Licinius of Tours, Mélaine of Rennes and Eustochius of Angers to Lovocat and Catihern who celebrated mass alongside women who had given the blood of Christ during the Eucharist.

Margot also cited the example of an engraving in a fifth- or sixth-century column in France that reads: Martia presbyteria ferit obblata oledbrio par et nepote, thusly showing that she was a cleric’s wife. The “ferit obblata” could mean that she made a one-off offering but also could have the meaning that she offered the Holy Host during mass.

Lastly, Émilie Kurdziel, began by offering the interesting example of the status of a clerical wife from the Ordines romani, which in the 36th ordo, describes the priest’s ordination. It says that once ordained and having received the vestments and vessels, the priest would leave St Peter’s and ride on a white horse to their church, escorted by the faithful who carried candles. The text adds that roman women did the same for deaconesses and priestesses who were blessed on the same day. The women would sing lauds for these wives. This shows that these wives would also be blessed and given a title and receiving the same praise as their priest husbands. It also demonstrates a dignity and status linked to status of men. Interestingly, the manuscript is continued to be copied into the 10th century.

Émilie went on to specify that we must be meticulous when looking for women in sources, as they can be erased for a variety of reasons, just as Dyan Elliott had shown in hagiography. In this case, Gerberga, bishop’s wife from Arezzo, had her name included in some charters, but erased in others. By following her children, Émilie was able to continue to find information about Gerberga. Émilie also urged the group to look and think beyond the reformer and the Gregorian Reform. These women are still there, even if certain people try to erase them.

After such interesting articles and presentations, The Other Sister’s members were eager to start the discussion. Michelle Armstrong-Partida began by asking about the daughters born of clerical marriages and if they were more difficulty traced in the sources. Émilie answered that in fact, daughters appear in the sources and have no issue being recognized by their clerical fathers. There is also evidence of endogamic marriages between the children of clerics. In fact, sons might appear more often in sources as it is more difficult for them to be ordained. Clerical sons required papal dispensation to become priests, as they were technically barred from priesthood, therefore we have many letters asking for this dispensation. Margot added that clerics’ daughters appear relatively often in Merovingian sources and that daughters were allowed to live with their fathers to help with the household.

Next, Bruce Venarde pointed out that in one of the breve that Émilie had presented, Gerberga, the bishop’s wife, had her name omitted, yet her son is named as the bishop’s son. This struck as odd to omit the wife (replacing her name with ***) yet be open to admitting the bishop had children. How is this dynamic working? Émilie suggests that there were two groups. The first were the reformers who believed clerical marriages were not acceptable. This group was related to Arezzo’s cathedral chapter. The second group believed in clerical marriages and within this group was the bishop’s daughter-in-law. This breve was drafted in Santa Fiora, whereas the ones which erase all traces of Gerberga were from the cathedral archives, demonstrating a difference in attitudes. Isabelle Cochelin added that those reading the *** in the breve would surely know this meant the wife of the bishop, with which Émilie agreed saying that they were erasing something which everyone knew.

Meghan Lescault continued by asking if there was any evidence that clerics’ wives ever had legal status conferred on them due to their status as wives? Did they benefit from any privileges or were they viewed the same as a lay women under the law? Émilie answered that clerics were meant to be living according to Roman law, at least in Italy. Therefore, a cleric who was born as a Lombard or a Frank, once he became a cleric, he needed to start using Roman law and this was the same for his wife. This did not apply to lay women. Margot stated that she had not come across this in Frankish sources.

Next, Roisin Cossar asked if clerics’ wives would have had a religious identity and if there was evidence of them being in contact with each other, to which Fiona answered that she feels that they surely must have a role in running the parish. There are sources speaking of them making vestments and decorating the church, which requires theological knowledge. They would also have been patrons of arts in their own right. Émilie added that they also would have a role in raising and educating the future clerics in the household.

Nicole Shulman then spoke of how there are two aspects for concern regarding clerical marriage, the sexual and the property. She asked what was happening the Church property and if there was any concern or examples of clerics’ children inheriting Church property. Margot responded by stating that in canon law, everything the priest acquires after ordination belongs to the Church, but they can keep possessions acquired prior to ordination and thusly bequeath these items. However, for a cleric’s wife, Margot did not see why she would not be able to leave any of her goods or property to her inheritors. However, Fiona stressed that although reformers speak a lot about the sexual aspect of clerical marriage and that reform is required for this reason, property seems to be the real heart of reform. It is a major issue for them. Focusing too much on the sexual aspect of reformer’s opposition to clerical marriage is missing the target.

This concluded the very interesting and fruitful discussion surrounding the new publication and clerical wives. Another example for how we must not be afraid to look for women and their roles in the texts and histories we study.

News and Events

The Other Sister at the 2025 MAA

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We are happy to announce that several members and friends of The Other Sister will be participating in sessions at the 2025 Centennial Meeting of the MAA to be held March 20–22 at Harvard University.

A panel entitled “Liminal Figures: Non-Cloistered Religious Women and Canon Law” will occur on Friday, March 21 from 1:30–3:15 pm in Sever Hall 103.

Anne E. Lester (Johns Hopkins University) will serve as chair, and the following papers will be presented:

John H. Van Engen (University of Notre Dame): “Women Hearth-Mates, Master Geert Grote, and Canon Law”

Tanya Stabler Miller (Loyola University Chicago): “‘By No Means Considered Religious’: Beguines, Canons, and Canon Law”

Meghan Lescault (University of Toronto): “Canon-ess Law: Secular Canonesses and Legal Status”

Immediately afterwards on Friday, March 21 from 3:30–5:15 pm, there will be a roundtable session entitled “Women’s Religious Communities: A Roundtable Discussion of Past Scholarship and New Directions” in Emerson Hall 101.

Fiona Griffiths (Stanford University) will serve as chair, and the following will speak as participants:

Margot Fassler (University of Notre Dame)

Eva Schlotheuber (Heinrich Heine University Düsseldorf)

Susan Boynton (Columbia University)

Isabelle Cochelin (University of Toronto)

Joshua O’Driscoll (Morgan Library and Museum)

Information about the conference and registration can be found here.

News and Events, Uncategorized

TOS at the 2025 American Historical Association in New York

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Some of our organizers and collaborators were present and speaking at the 138th Annual Meeting of the AHA in New York, thanks to a session organized by Meghan Lescault (who received for the occasion an award from the American Catholic Historical Association); see the abstract below:

AHA Session 98: The Other Sister: Noncloistered Religious Women in the Middle Ages

American Catholic Historical Association 11

Saturday, January 4, 2025: 10:30 AM-12:00 PM

Chair: Kate Bush, College of the Holy Cross

  • Katherine Ann Clark Walter, State University of New York, College at Brockport:

Remembering Women: Widows’ Religious Identity in Late Medieval Mourning and Remembrance

  • Ashley Tickle Odebiyi, Arizona State University:

The Evolving Role of Noncloistered Religious Women in Papal Politics: A Case Study of Francesca Romana and Eugene IV

  • Emma Gabe, University of Toronto:

Martha and Mary: The Religious Vocation of Laysisters in Late Medieval Germany

  • Meghan Lescault, University of Toronto:

A Feature, Not a Bug: The Legal Ambiguity of the Secular Chapter of Nivelles

Session Abstract: Throughout the history of Christianity, there have been diverse groups of women who led recognizably religious lives outside of traditional monastic structures. The Middle Ages saw a particular abundance of these forms of non-cloistered life. Despite their great numbers, these women were often met with suspicion, marginalization, and opposition by ecclesiastical figures of authority who considered aspects of their lives to be mutually exclusive, defining the religious and lay realms in complete contrast to each other. While we might have expected modern scholars to transcend these strict categories imposed by medieval clerics, it remains the case that non-cloistered religious women receive inadequate treatment in the scholarly literature despite the fascinating insights they offer in the areas of religious, social, cultural, economic, intellectual, legal, and material history. This is at least in part due to a historiographical tradition that imposes a monastic model on female religious life—the “good” religious woman was the cloistered nun. It is now time, however, to give these non-cloistered women their proper place in the historical record.
This session aims to fill this gap by drawing attention to the numerous forms of medieval female religious life and highlighting a few in particular. In featuring different kinds of non-cloistered women in different regions, it will display the great diversity found among these women while recalling their basic similarities. Moreover, the broad thematic range of the session will reflect the great variety of activities, lifestyles, and networks of non-cloistered religious women in the Middle Ages.

Together, these papers will highlight the far-reaching influence and important presence of medieval non-cloistered women in the Middle Ages in many areas—from art to politics to religion to canon law and more—and in different geographical regions. They will also reveal the mixed reception that such women could meet with in medieval society—from welcome and approval to suspicion and distrust.

Research Seminars

The Other Sister Research Seminar: Identities on the Italian Peninsula

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by Joseph George Akl

On September 29th, 2023, The Other Sister research group held a seminar on the topic of varieties of religious life on the Italian peninsula. Four invited speakers presented some of their work on the subject, which had been circulated to all 44 participants prior to the online meeting:

  • Mary Harvey Doyno, “Roman Women: Female Religious, the Papacy, and a Growing Dominican Order,” Speculum 97, no. 4 (2022): 1040–72.
  • Thomas Luongo, “Catherine of Siena’s Advice to Religious Women,” Specula 3 (2022): 99–124.
  • Ashley Tickle Odebiyi, “Betwixt and Between: The Formation of Non-Cloistered Religious Women’s Identities in Rome, 1400-1600,” 2–31. This unpublished chapter is from an upcoming monograph.
  • Thérèse Peeters, “To Overcome Distrust: Three Religious Initiatives by Genoese Women,” in Trust in the Catholic Reformation, Studies in Medieval and Reformation Traditions 231 (Leiden: Brill, 2022), 182–229.
    • The introduction from this publication (pages 1-36) was also circulated for additional context.

Each paper focused on the question of identity using the Italian peninsula as a case study. As is often the case with non-cloistered religious women, the issue around nomenclature was central. However, the aim of the discussion was not to box-in (or, in a manner, cloister!) these women, but to uncover their multifold identities and find non-cloistered religious women in sources where they have been overlooked.

Mary Harvey Doyno, associate professor in the Department of Humanities and Religious Studies at Sacramento State University, centered her discussion on the growth of the universal convent of San Sisto envisioned by Pope Innocent III and achieved by Honorius III (with the help of Dominic of Caleruega). She argued that, by considering Cecilia of Rome’s Miracula beati Dominici alongside the extant charter evidence from Santa Maria in Tempuli, she was able to give more visibility to Roman women religious and Dominicans, albeit one that was tied to the attempt to cloister all of Rome’s women religious.

Thomas Luongo, associate professor of history and the director of Medieval and Early Modern Studies at Tulane University, focused his short presentation on the loaded question of Catherine of Siena’s identity as a woman religious. He asked what Catherine’s conception of her life and vocation was, and if we can even speak of a formal vocation when discussing Catherine’s identity – one that is completely idiosyncratic. Lunogo argued that Raymond of Capua’s life of Catherine positions her as following the Dominican order, even suggesting her as a friar, an identity that fits into Catherine’s advice of claustration to some women while never cloistering herself. Catherine’s lifestyle was an impossible one and Luongo added that if we try to make it work, pushing Catherine into the box of laity or of religious life, we ignore the tension at play.

Next, Ashley Tickle Odebiyi, assistant professor of history at Arizona State University, focused her discussion on the bizzoche of Rome and how, though each bizzoche house was associated with a different order, such as the Benedictines, Franciscans, or Dominicans, these women had networks and identities that crossed the borders of the male orders. Despite the limited extant documentation for some of these houses, Odebiyi has found commonalities between the Roman bizzoche in their clothing, affective piety, and service to the poor – a lens she believes is important to apply to the study of non-cloistered religious women in general, drawing on similarities between beguines, beatas, bizzoche and others.

Finally, Thérèse Peeters, author of Trust in the Catholic Reformation, asked what role did trust play in the post-Tridentine Church in general, a period characterised by distrust, especially of female religious. This distrust was exemplified by Genoa’s seventeenth-century magistrato delle monache which supervised and controlled female religious life in the city. Peeters examined three religious groups, the Turchine, Medee, and Brignoline, that, despite this climate, arose during the period in Genoa. She discussed the interplay between trust and freedom, with the freedom of choice, spirituality and movement increasing the women’s view of the trustworthiness of their own religious project, while similarly increasing the distrust of those whose support they needed. Peeters found that a higher level of trust was necessary for the women religious who acted publicly, while lower levels of trust were needed for religious groups who kept a lower profile.

The discussion began with Alison More asking about the interplay between identity and order. Mary Harvey Doyno answered that she is trying to understand this very thing. San Sisto is associated with the Dominican Order but it is clear that the friars did not think of it as theirs, at least not in the modern understanding of affiliation. At opportune times the friars point to San Sisto as an example of women in their order, but the relationship is never fully clear. Thomas Luongo also answered saying that, of course, Raymond of Capua did not wish to make Catherine a friar, this is impossible, but just as Mary Magdalene was a model for some, Catherine was made into a model for the friars. Luongo wished to underscore the difficulty (or the missing-the-point) of trying to clarify identities with labels.

Adrian Kammerer next asked two questions. First, he wanted more information on Amata from Cecilia’s Miracula who had spirits expelled from her by Dominic of Caleruega, as she does not seem to be cloistered even later in the writings. Second, he wondered if the charters from Santa Maria in Tempuli discussed by Doyno complicated not only the distinction between nuns and other sisters, but also the one between conversae and other sisters. Doyno answered that though she wished she had more information on Amata, it is not clear what becomes of her from the documentation. As for the second statement, she agreed that this understanding can be broadened to include semi-religious women, and how she was interested by the abbesses’ attempts to nod to a larger community of women, outside of the smaller community of nuns. The fact that this larger community was involved in guarding the convent’s patrimony is understood by Doyno as a red flag for Innocent III or Honorius III, aiding the idea of a universal convent.

Maiju Lehmijoki Wetzel asked if it was too radical to assert that the Dominican Order did not exist before women were involved. Doyno answered that, though radical, the statement identifies that the institution, and therefore perhaps the identity, is formed around a process of including everybody but giving women a clear, contained space. Luongo specified that even during Catherine of Siena’s life, the identity of the order was still being articulated. There is a clarity organisationally for men that does not exist for women. It is this lack of organisation for the women that brings these questions. However, Luongo added that if one digs deeper, there is a variety in the friars’ identities as well, which could also bring a (diverse) range of issues.

Michèle Mulchahey stated that in the discussion on the tension between the cura monialium and mendicancy, scholarship focuses on the friars’ relationships with women, but, with women being cloistered, there were also the problems linked with property and ownership. Would this not be a real stumbling block to including women into the order? Doyno agreed but added that in her reading of the situation, the convent of San Sisto really remained under the control of the papacy, who had asked Dominic for assistance. So there were no real issue of the properties of women creating a problem with the friars’ mendicancy during the thirteenth century. Luongo wondered if, by Catherine’s time, there is a sense that this concern has folded into the situation concerning the Dominican Reform. He added that it is often forgotten that during Catherine life there was a female Dominican community in Sienna that interacted with Catherine and the mantellate.

Sioban Nelson asked Doyno to explain her comment that the Church needed this universal convent to grow. Doyno responded that though there was a resource element to this need, Innocent III had the idea to create a Church for the entirety of Christendom and to be able to articulate authority in this way. This amorphous growth is what she conceptualised when stating that this was needed for the Church to grow.

Carla Thomas asked if we should think of Catherine having a vocation in her time or are we projecting a modern notion onto her when saying this. Dr. Luongo suggested that “vocation” is probably a term we are using with a modern sense and that it is not entirely applicable.

Isabelle Cochelin asked if these women were allowed to choose their confessors or spiritual advisors. Peeters answered that the smaller of the three female groups in Genoa, the Medee, had this choice and they often picked the Jesuits. The cloistered women in Genoa had this decision made for them. Odebiyi gave the example of Santa Francesca who chose two confessors in her life, neither one coming from the Benedictines of Mount Olivet with whom her house of bizzoche was affiliated. Doyno was unsure and said that the sources seem to suggest that Dominic was selected for the women rather than the other way around. Luongo answered that even though Catherine made everything seem like a choice, the choice of confessor was made for her. However, she had a close relationship to Raymond of Capua, who berated Catherine’s early confessors in his work.

Michael Hahn enquired as to when the term “Dominican” is first used as well as asking if we are perhaps imposing a modern identity onto the period when using the terms “Dominican” or “Franciscan” to speak of the orders. Doyno answered that the appellation “Order of Preachers” was used during Innocent III’s reign and that Amanda Power has dealt with this historiographical issue for the Franciscans. She answered that thinking about the historical narrative being fabricated when we connect these non-cloistered religious women to the mendicant orders is important, as Alison More has written, but this fabricated narrative also gives us the false sense that there is a coherent identity for the mendicants earlier than there was. Odebiyi added that her sources use the terms Third Order of Saint Francis and then pinzochere in the same documents, which complicates the understanding of these women’s identity. This is why she has opted to simply use the term bizzoche instead of tertiaries. Michèle Mulchahey added that the earliest use of the term ordo in relation to the Dominicans was to designate their propositum and refered to their preaching.

Delfi Nieto-Isabel summarised the major themes of this meeting’s discussion asking if we are boxing in the non-cloistered religious women when trying to categorise them and impose identities onto them. She asked if this was a heritage handed down to us by the Church authorities of the period and if, ultimately, these are useless categories, even when thinking across the north-south European border. Doyno agreed and brought to light the fact that this confusion does not happen with male groups, and Odebiyi added that this categorisation comes from the sources, which can obscure real commonalities between groups. Peeters specified that for the women she studied, categorisation depends on the type of project the women were trying to set up. Sometimes a fluid identity can serve a group. Luongo added that not all had access to Latin, through which many ideas were spread, which can lead to some of the regional divides

Research Seminars

The Other Sister Research Seminar: Habits and Habitual Dress

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by Isabelle Cochelin and Alison More

On November 7, 2022, The Other Sister research group held a seminar on the topic of Habits and Habitual Dress. Four invited speakers presented some of their work on the subject, which had been circulated to all participants prior to the meeting:

  • Alejandra Concha Sahli, “Habit Envy: Extra-Religious Groups, Attire, and the Search for Legitimation Outside the Institutionalised Religious Orders,” in Medieval Clothing and Textiles 15 (2019):137-56.

For additional information, we also sent: Alejandra Concha Sahli, “Habit Envy: Extra-Religious Groups, Attire and the Search for Legitimation Outside the Institutionalised Orders”, 3rd chapter of “The Meaning of the Habit: Religious Orders, Dress and Identity, 1215-1650”, PhD thesis, UCL, 2017.

  • Kirsty Schut, “Death and a Clothing Swap: An Unusual Case of Death and Burial in the Religious Habit in Fourteenth-Century Naples,” Viator (2019): 185-226.

 

  • Thomas M. Izbicki, “Nuns Clothing and Ornaments in English and Northern French Ecclesiastical Regulations,” in Refashioning Medieval and Early Modern Dress, ed. Gale R. Owen-Crocker and Maryn Clegg Hyer (Boydell and Brewer, 2019), p. 237-54.

 

As befits the subject, our discussion on habits was comprised of many threads. The issue of what constituted religious dress, what (and whether) it conveyed authority were addressed along with more practical concerns such as sewing and purchasing garments. In all, it seems that both the growing fields of material history and study of The Other Sister are rich areas for further study.

The work of Dr. Alejandra Concha Sahli, who teaches medieval history and works in public policy in Chile, explores identity and issues of legitimation connected with the visual appearance of beguines. By adopting aspects of the appearance of more traditional nuns, newer religious movements could more easily secure a legitimate role in the social and religious landscapes. They were, however, also often accused of borrowing the habits of others, and thus coming under attack. Dr Concha Sahli mentioned Nathan Joseph’s 1986 book Uniforms and Nonuniforms: Communication through Clothing, as useful to understand that, in the Middle Ages, the “habit made the monk”.

Dr. Kirsten Schut, a Mellon Fellow at the Pontifical Institute for Mediaeval Studies, focused her discussion on the new directions for research explored in her article, other articles in progress as well as her book project on entrance ad succurrendum and lay death and burial in religious habits. In particular, she mentioned the taking of the habit on the deathbed as sometimes representing the final stage in the journey of a tertiary. While the majority of cases of lay individuals choosing to be buried in a religious habit in her rather extensive bibliographical catalogue involve habits of traditional orders, mainly Dominican and Franciscan, Dr. Schut identified cases of women wanting to be buried in the habit of a ‘beguine,’ ‘vestita,’ ‘mantellata,’ ‘pinzochera,’ or third order. These cases were largely from Italy and Southern France, but this might be more reflective of the sources than practices. Overall, donning a religious habit on one’s deathbed demonstrates another unofficial way individuals could be linked to a religious order after their death.

Professor Thomas Izbicki, a historian of Canon Law, now retired from Rutgers, who is also active in DISTAFF (Discussion, Interpretation and Study of Textile Arts, Fabrics and Fashion), began his presentation by pointing out that the subject combined two of his major interests, clothing and the value of religious visitations. Differences in wealth among the nuns were often expressed in difference in clothing, even within one house. He also raised the issue of textiles produced in houses of women for non-liturgical purposes. Women’s houses were generally not given the same kind of financial support as the houses of their male counterparts. Before the seventeenth century, nuns were not allowed to teach. More attention should therefore be given to the ways these houses were able to produce goods (such as sweets or sewing works) to survive financially and stay afloat.

Professor Gabriella Zarri, now retired from the University of Florence, who is responsible for some of the foundational work on non-traditional women religious, focused on the role and purpose of a habit. Pointing out that many major rites of passage are marked by ceremonies of clothing or unclothing (from birth to death), she traced the ways this manifested itself in female religious life with reference to marriage iconography, and the cult of Mary Magdalene. Zarri touched upon the meaning of some elements of profession, such as the reception of a crown of thorns to be transformed into the afterlife into a crown of glory. She also discussed the Dimesse, an order of widows, whose habits were simple, but retained elements of the elegance associated with the social status of women in the world (see fig. 8 in the English summary of her article).

The discussion began with the issue of tertiaries, and the significance of the change of habit as the final stage in the journey of a tertiary. Kirsten Schut pointed to the frequency of burial in religious habits. The habits were often switched from tertiary to monastic habit. Delfi Nieto raised the issue of queens who were buried in religious habits, sometimes even tertiary habits; there is certainly a need for further exploration of this practice. Joseph Akl asked if the religious habits donned at death were always specific to a religious group to which Kirsten Schut answered positively, at least until the 19th century/early 20th century, when secular undertakers used more generic clothing.

The discussion then moved to the Cult of the Magdalene.

The issue of what constituted religious dress was also mentioned. Alejandra Concha Sahli elaborated on when the “clothing” of beguines became official. Kirsten Schut also raised the issue of veils. There does not seem to be much clarity on when “official” decisions were made about clothing, but Gabriella Zarri pointed out that it was stable in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries.

Meghan Lescault asked about if/when habits were officially designated as “sacramentals”. It is a theological category that was not very clearly defined, at least in the Middle Ages. Prof. Izbicki referred to Cordelia Warr’s 2010 book, Dressing for Heaven: Religious Clothing in Italy, 1215-1545. Dr Schut pointed out that a link was often made between baptism and taking a habit. Again, the ceremony of veiling seems to be key. Katherine Walter Clark pointed out that there were comparable practices for the veiling of widows.

Fr. Augustine Thompson mentioned that habit was a key part of Dominican penitential identity. He added that, curiously, by the fifteenth century, women associated with the Dominican penitential movement were increasingly portrayed as cloistered nuns rather than as tertiaries.

As well as a liturgical dimension, there were many practical concerns related to the habit. Eva Cersovsky asked who was making them. Answers to this question were diverse: some female communities might have taken care of making their own habits but it does not seem to have been the norm. Parallels with the recluses were discussed in the chat.

Isabelle Cochelin asked if there was a clear distinction between the habits of nuns and the ones of non-cloistered religious women. She also asked who was the woman in black beside Mary-Magdalene in the 1582 painting by Francesco Cavazzoni of Christ’s Sermon to Mary Magdalene presented by Professor Zarri during her presentation (see fig. 6 in her article and the English summary of her article). Professor Zarri answered that it could be a widow as the clothing of widows was similar to that of nuns. Dr. Concha Sahli pointed out that the difference between beguines’ habits and nuns’ remains an open question.